return wavedashing | Voters

return wavedashing

deterraleon

before the update after using iron boots you would get your speed doubled, now it is set to 0. this removes tech without adding anything, also makes you MORE vulnerable after iron boots. also also it doesn't allow you to iron boots several structures

December 23, 2024

Musical-Memoirs

Maybe flowstone could get a separate wavedash stone variation. It works the same as flowstone, but gets this speedboost from the iron boots landing. As that tech is almost always used in combination with the flow stone.
That way the community can choose what they want. Similar to this suggestion:
https://rumble.canny.io/suggestions/p/two-charge-stones-charge-stone-cracked-charge-stone

YourNeighborNat

Musical-Memoirs If there was to be a "cracked" Flow Stone that allowed for wavedashing, perhaps the trade-off could be that you could only air-dash, not double jump? Or is double jumping heavily used for wavedashing?

Musical-Memoirs

YourNeighborNat I don't actively use wave dash, only some experiments. I did want to learn it later but never got around to it... I believe most wavedashers don't necessarily need double jump for most moves. But I do know one that benefits from double jump. Puppetmasters often benefit from double jump and you can land on your own missed puppet attack for the speed boost.

spaceTimer

i didnt know buckethead had a website this is really nice :D

BoBo

Waveddash was not necessary to the game, but it can still be used in creative ways.
Most of the time, wavedash wasnt intentional, because we just landed on our opponent structure after going in the air, and got 2x speed. That 2x speed was enough to move far away to avoid the heaviest punish, wich isnt great. When falling on our opponent, we should be in a disadvantage state, but wavedash basically saved aggressive players that werent carefull. It is a good thing that wavedash is gone because it basically negated any advantage we should get when our opponent rushed carelessly.
Altough, there was some ways to use hyperdash intentionally. There was hyperdash, cpJDJ, where you self setup a cube and a pillar and wavedash on it for big speed. This move, as well as some other wavedash moves, were appreciated in the community, so it wouldnt be great to add wavedash back for them.
The issue is that wavedash should be gone, and still in the game. To fix the issue, I think it would be great to add a wavedash shiftsone. Basically, when wearing it, you will get the x2 speed just like before when falling on a structure. Those that dont care about wavedash wont use it and wont be saved for no reasons in their disadvantage state, and those that love wavedash will still be able to use it. 
People using wavedash useally use stubborn/flow, and because hyperdash requires flow stone, most will have to sacrifice stubborn, but I think its fair considering the buff stubborn technically got because of client Dashes and Jumps are now instant.

ContagiousPow

BoBo if there were to be a wavedash shiftstone, then people who use that shiftstone have to be giving up one of their others. Unless flow movement becomes a part of the base kit (or even just flow dash), wavedashing is a niche thing that is only useful in close range melee styles, or in specific moves, so it would be unlikely to be used much. While that could be an argument to not have wavedash at all, as it is situational, I answer that there are tons of very situational moves, some of which were bugs in their own right before they became features (railguns, ps and dps). The benefits of wavedashing outweigh the costs, especially when it is used in a smart way.

TicketyBoo

the pros outweigh the cons here, removing that helped with alot of other things getting patched and leads to an overall better gamefeel

deterraleon

TicketyBoo what was patched that required wavedashes to go

XQPF0Q27N83M

deterraleon I remember them saying that they improved the reliability of the iron boots not causing desync. Maybe it was tied to that?

deterraleon

XQPF0Q27N83M can't be, as that would be only related to the registration of iron boots, not to what they cause AFTER they've been activated, iirc the desyncs were happening because client and host dissagreed on whether iron boots activated or not because the iron boots detection was happening kinda both client and host side. also i think those still happen but just cause big lag spikes instead but i'm not sure.

TicketyBoo

deterraleon from what I heard it sounded like wavedashing was removed in order to help eliminate desync and as a step towards making dashes and jumps work clientside

Someone

why was this patched in the first place? Add this to a tutorial pillar and add some VFX and it should feel more intended.

XQPF0Q27N83M

Someone many bugs can be caused by one thing. Fixing one bug may remove a bunch of others (we've lost tech in the past because it was a bug tied to otger bugs)

Darkener

The people saying it should be a shift stone are missing the fact that you also  kinda need flow too wave dash, meaning even making usage of the mechanic soft requires flow too, obviously you can without it but still
On top of that the speed up on iron boots helped with getting out of structure spam underneath you too
I dont think it should be a shift stone, for it to be a shifstone the concept of wave dashing would need to change with a different method to achieve the same thing

XQPF0Q27N83M

It FELT like a bug though. I think it makes sense that it was removed. You had to do it in a specific way and it was never mentioned in any of the tutorial pillars if a new player checked it out.
I think there are things they could do to make it feel like it should be there but the way it was was just to much like jank that you could do intentionally.
(Of course I both liked it
 and used it
 so I am totally for it being added back but having it feel more intentional)

ContagiousPow

XQPF0Q27N83M I think it could definitely be an intended feature, and also, that same logic goes for railguns, and the devs now have those as an intended feature

XQPF0Q27N83M

ContagiousPow I like Tom's implementation idea! (No flow stone required since it's dirt)

ContagiousPow

XQPF0Q27N83M This definitely works as a feature, though it doesnt have the same speed boost as wavedashing. If the devs could have you like push the structure back as you dash on it, that would work great! I also use wavedashes to destroy structures, mainly walls, in close quarters, and to get a speed boost off of it, and so pushing it back would effectively render it useless to the person i'm attacking, unless they chase after it. otherwise, I think that could definitely work! (and if the devs allowed for the popular setups to work as they did before, that'd be great. ex: hyperdashing)

Lux

despite the training it took to pull it off I still feel it was outside interesting playstyle. But making it a shiftstone would be indeed a good way to balance it out.

KANM2U9Q9CY3

At the least, i think it is such a cool mechanic that it could become a shiftstone. That could make it the best of both worlds. It encourages the playstyle for specific people, but helps it not create the issues it might have created (although im not sure what they were)

Lorewise you are using a special technical to amplify your iron feet destruction to speed you up.

Culpepper9

KANM2U9Q9CY3 it being a shift stone is, i wouldnt say its a bad idea, its just not a good on yk?
I think it belongs as a feature not a stone. If its a stone you would have to give up a secondary stone just to wavedash. Which is not bad i just dont think its worth it. And im a speed main saying this. 
I think it belongs outside a shiftsone.

S88JEU7Y3SC2

KANM2U9Q9CY3 I like the idea of it being a shiftstone, however on its own I think it would be way underpowered and would need something else to make it actually worth using

Culpepper9

I will gut every employee if they dont add it back /j

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