return parry unground
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t
theniceobz
I need old parry back. I had unreleased flight tech that I can't use now
K
Kalamart
It's been a month. I wish I could upvote this a second time, because after a month I feel just as strongly about reverting this change, even though I've gotten used to it. All it introduced to the game is frustration, and no new tech was discovered, only lost. Most people either hate the change or aren't impacted by it, I don't know anyone who would be mad if parry ungrounded again.
Please please give our parry unground back. It is cherished by the community and it was a brilliant balancing tool for the defense system in RUMBLE.
U
UlvakSkillz
Parry ungrounding was the tradeoff so stomp was more viable. It made the ungrounded Structures stop and stronger but worked only on ungrounded. Parry made any structure stop but was weakened by the ungrounding. Now, defensively, parry replaces stomp entirely. Parry for offense was purely to ungrounded to quickly get a free structure. Kick is too slow as we will have to wait for it to retouch the ground to keep a nice combo pathing, otherwise the object could go too high. Parry ungrounding is needed for balance of poses.
d
dlore
are devs gonna acknowledge this
K
KANM2U9Q9CY3
After 2 weeks i can say i have adjusted, defensively i do a few different things. I almost never use parry. I can also say that we have gained nothing interesting and only lost countless interesting interactions and moves due to the change. The 'unintended complexity' is what makes rumble beautiful. So i see this as an easy win for the devs to embrace the fact that the change of state was never intented with parry, but it has become a core feature of combat.
Y
YourNeighborNat
What if it was added back as a shift stone that also buffed parry/the parried structure with some additional effect that was relevant for the use cases someone might specifically want parry unground for?
E
Ender
YourNeighborNat I don't like any shiftstone suggestions with regards to this. For me its very cut and dry. It was removed accidentally the vast majority of the community wants it back. I don't see why we should have to bargain for a lesser version of it especially since its by no means a balance issue.
d
deterraleon
the current parry implementation has barely any unique functions, which sets it apart from the rest of the moves, the closest one to that place is uppercut, but it's very frequently used because it can be used anywhere in any hit combo to give the structure more velocity.
the changes made to the parry do not add basically any tech/uses, but remove the vast majority of its previous uses. so far the only tech that the new parry has is the perfect dellayed parry stasis setup, which is a bug.
we've had several days to adjust to the new parry and the most common adaptation is to just not use it, as it is outclassed in 99% of cases by other moves, the only moves in which it isn't outclassed are either bugs(0g/parry stasis/dps) or low disk, which is a very situational move. and the only situation in which it isn't outclassed by other defensive moves is defending against a very fast grounded structure, but most grounded structures, even slingshots, can still be defended via hold.
the one thing that made parry stand out was its ability to unground structures and have them be stationarry after, which was very useful for flick setups, also it was a lot easier to use than other poses as it's simple to hit, very close to flick and flow nicely from basically any other pose.
the parry also had a good triangle of states with hold and ground, where you were able to have the incomming structure be in any state after a single move
M
Musical-Memoirs
Potential solution:
Allow us to use the gear market to buy move alternatives.
- The parry as the devs intended, for the rare players that do like the change.
- The old parry with ungrounding functionality.
That way the community can choose which version they like by adding a move without adding extra poses to the game. You just choose which version you want to equip to the parry pose.
C
ContagiousPow
Musical-Memoirs This could be cool, could this idea also work with stuff like wavedashing?
M
Musical-Memoirs
ContagiousPow yes, but that could also be a flowstone alternative. Which I did post as a suggestion.
K
Kalamart
Musical-Memoirs I have a free flowstone slot in my setup, but some people would be mad to have to remove one of their stones to get the old functionality back
t
theniceobz
Musical-Memoirs this �
K
Kalamart
After a couple days re-learning parry-flick as kick-flick, I have to say it
kinda
works as a combo BUT it completely messes up a lot of setups (even single-structure ones) because the structure's position when flicking is very important: before it would be closer to the lower hand, now it's closer to the upper hand.And I guess that's something to get used to, and setups can be reworked, or you can wait for the structure to fall back down, but it does feel like there's some agency removed here.
M
Musical-Memoirs
Out of fear that this change might stay I have been in various discussions about it. I asked the defenders of the change to tell me the plus sides of parry not giving a state change. And the only real answer I got every time was that they liked that they had to take more effort to unground something. They all agreed we lost functionality and couldn't name any added functionality.
The reason they didn't think a loss of functionality was a problem was because they couldn't think of combos that were impossible with a kick replacement, they only thought it was harder to do. But once they got told of examples of combos that are actually impossible to do with a replacement, some of it's defenders turned around.
There is also a discussion about the defense against held grounded short range attacks and puppetmasters. Since parry doesn't break the hold anymore, it does nothing to defend against such an attack. Parry used to be the best defensive move in such a situation as the state change broke the hold.
The defenders of the change often say you can just replace parry with a kick or uppercut in those cases. While true that those moves will unground and help you defend, it undercuts the functionality of parry. Parry is supposed to be a defensive move, but a defensive move that cannot be used to defend against common short ranged attacks and needs to be replaced with an offensive move feels wrong.
So parry used to be a defensive move with extra utility build in outside of defense. But it got stripped of it's utility function and even it's intended function of defense got worse. And all the defenders of the change can say is that they like that the game got harder. If you remove parry as a move completely it also got harder to play, that doesn't mean the game gets better.
K
KANM2U9Q9CY3
Musical-Memoirs i dont even know if i could name one person still defending the change. Perhaps maybe one person with a hyper niche playstyle benefits from parry not changes states. So its important to note for the devs that this debate isnt an even discussion of equal sides.
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