General shiftstone rebalance ideas
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Pompyy
as the title says I wish to rebalance some of the shift stones. And please leave a comment if you have any other ideas/feedback
Adamant: doesnt pre activate on self damage, so self damage doesnt always give you the -1
Stubborn: remove its -1 damage
guard: make its damage blocked -2 and have it cover your feet
Volatile: make it less effective for player knockback
Vigor: reduce damage needed to 4 and increase time to 7.5sec and let it work in tandem with surge
charge: reduce time needed from 1 sec to .8sec
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Detective_Pork
i'm not sure what is being said with adament, but overall i think this sounds pretty cool. though i don't think guard would need to be able to cover their feet since the only way to get under it,as of now, is with a grounded disc if i'm not mistaken. but i do think that it would be a welcome change for it to reduce damage by 2 instead of 1.
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SpooderL
instead of making guard cover your feet you should be able to aim it up and down, I appreciate that you didnt mess with KB tho unlike 99% of other guard stone reworks lol
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Pompyy
SpooderL OOOH I like that idea, then you could also guard against aerials
and ofc! Im pretty familiar with guard tech and how much its kb matters
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Your_Neighbor_Nat
I think I can generally get behind these, although:
- If adamant doesn't pre-activate on self damage, perhaps surge shouldn't either. Since self-damage prevention is one of the useful things about adamant though, perhaps it could provide a general -1 damage from structures claimed by the adamant user and not have the adamant buff apply to self damage?
- With -2 damage on guard, I dunno if covering feet is necessary. Leaving feet exposed might provide neat counterplay with discs on the ground, especially since guard could fully negate free balls and pillars with a -2 damage.
- My initial thought might be to prefer vigor heal more per proc than have a reduced damage requirement... but... I suppose that only increases the amount of procs per match to 5 instead of 4 (assuming no damage reduction which can currently increase the amount of times it can proc). Also, I think allowing vigor to overheal (as suggested here) is still a nice idea: https://rumble.canny.io/suggestions/p/allow-vigor-to-overheal
Additionally, if surge is allowed to work with vigor, I think perhaps surge, adamant, and vigor could all be changed to calculate based on final damage instead of structure damage before modifers to damage like surge and damage reduction. AFAIK, this would result in:
Vigor can use the surge buffs to proc faster/off of lighter structures, but can be reduced or negated by damage reduction. (If this route is taken, reducing damage required to proc down to 4 may be preferred, I think)
Adamant can get longer buff uptime against opponents without damage reduction, but it's buff uptime can be reduced or negated by damage reduction.
Surge could have a longer buff when hitting with a surge boosted follow-up attack, but it's buff uptime can be reduced or negated by damage reduction.
In addition to providing consistency, perhaps this way of calculating may also prove more intuitive.
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Pompyy
Your_Neighbor_Nat 1. Surge doesnt always have you take +1 self damage tho. only adamant does the pre-proc shenanigans
- thats fair, keep guards current shape also maybe remove its start up lag
- yeh
- I think no as if somebody is abusing DR stones fun counter play with vigor is to disc spam them to heal off of them not caring cus they wont take damage
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Your_Neighbor_Nat
Pompyy If vigor procs off damage before damage reduction, wouldn't that'd let it ignore damage reduction, but still be boosted by surge, meaning you can like... 1 surge + 3 (final, after ground and/or moving) damage structure against a damage reduced opponent to get get a proc?
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Luceblock
i dont think the -1 for stubborn should be removed. could you pleas inlighten me?
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Pompyy
Luceblock its because stubborn/adamant to remove -2 damage is kinda busted
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Your_Neighbor_Nat
Luceblock Pompyy Specifically, in addition to also fully negating knockback on dash/jump, yeh? I think some people value the damage reduction vs. knockback immunity more and some people take issue with the knockback immunity, but I think generally the knockback immunity part is the more valuable piece of stubborn for repositioning or maintaining ground.
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Pompyy
Your_Neighbor_Nat the main special part of stubborn is the kb immunity. as much as it frustrates me that you can just dash out of any disadvantage I get more mad at people taking only 3 damage from a grounded wall lmao, plus the kb immunity does lead to some fun fights with mobility/aerial players