Volatile Tweak / Map Cycleing At The End | Voters

Volatile Tweak / Map Cycleing At The End

Detective_Pork

(I RE-WROTE THE POST TO MAKE IT MAKE SOME CORRECTIONS AND HOPEFULLY MAKE IT CLEARER)

It might be a hot take for some people, but honestly, i can't help but think that volatile is a bit too strong. And considering the meta for rumble (at least, at the moment) is all about being able to keep up the pace, it can make even a small difference in pace a lot more noticeable. It would be nice if it had a small tweak to how it works in order to give other play styles more time to shine against it.

---Things i think COLLECTIVELY contribute to why it's so much more powerful than a lot of other play styles:---

(THESE ARE NOT ALL THINGS I WOULD LIKE CHANGED, JUST THINGS THAT TOGETHER I THINK MAKE IT SO STRONG)

In the hands of a high pace player, it makes spawning a structure to protect yourself a liability (without good timing, which can be much harder to pull off on client.). You spawn a wall to block the hit, and if it finishes it's spawn animation before the attack lands, it will unground it and cause it to fall toward you. And in the worst case (fairly common with high pace players.) a second attack sends it flying into you, dealing significant knock back. (Note: the issue with knock back is only a major problem on maps with the ability to ring out opponents.)
If the player is using hold on a structure, (if it is grounded) it will unground the structure and break their hold. And (if it is ungrounded) it can still disarm the player if the structures collide in a way that forces the player and structure in opposite directions.
If the player uses flick to defend themself, the knock back can cause the structure to sling shot back into the player, making it a liability.
Using hold on a ungrounded structure (like a wall) for defense could work, but since the range of the hold is close enough to let volatile still knock back the player, it still makes it very powerful in cluttered arenas and on maps with ring outs.
Despite asking every high BP player i've met and even briefly talking about it on the discord server, it seems like the only way that people can counter volatile is by using certain shiftstones like stubborn. But (and this is just my opinion, so if anyone has a good argument i'd actually love to hear it.) if every, or most, other stones in the game just provide a small buff or function that compliments your play style, it just doesn't sound all that balanced to say that the only way to counter a single play style/item/function in a game is to force the players to use an item (instead of a function/feature) that would replace something else they prefer using. I've seen people running both the flow stone and charge stone, and saying that almost sounds like it's better to just equip what's best against volatile instead of what compliments your own play style best.
Not being able to see what stones a person has before a match/not being able to change your own before the match starts, just means that you will need to wait until after the match before you can change them. And by that point host flips, so you might have to fight them on client (it's a part of the game, but makes things a lot more difficult as well as making some tech just not work) and it can get a lot more difficult.

---Ideas for INDIVIDUAL tweaks that could maybe help.---

(THESE ARE NOT A LIST OF NERFS THAT I WANT, BUT A LIST OF INDIVIDUAL SUGGESTIONS THAT ARE MEANT TO BE FOOD FOR THOUGHT. EACH OF THESE ARE IDEAS MADE WITHOUT THE OTHERS IN MIND.)

Making explode/volatile no longer affect players structures while they are using hold/flick. (i.e. the structure doesn't become ungrounded, and in turn disarm the player. And for flick, it would prevent the hit/knock back from the explosion from causing it to sling shot back into the player.)
Making it no longer unground/redirect structures that are already in motion if they are grounded to begin with.
Making the structures affected with explode/volatile have 1 less durability. (Making them slightly easier to destroy and less likely to net zero a structure that would already be ungrounded.)

Like i said, these are just some ideas that might be worth, either looking into, or give food for thought. I do NOT want to see it removed or anything like that, but i think that in its current state it is too strong. Bank shots are epic and add something worthwhile to the game, but if the way to play against it is to not get hit/get faster (harder on client)/sacrifice a shiftstone/or be that much better overall to make up for it, then it may need a second glance.

P.S. Volatile is really at its most powerful and offers a real risk/reward on maps that have ring outs. Maybe it could be worth making the maps cycle after both players have had a chance to play with host. Just to make things less frustrating when fighting the same volatile player.

3 days ago

MRI

Flick can only be deactivated by grounding a flicked structure, so you're blatantly wrong here. What you're saying here is to basically remove explode from the game (it ungrounds objects and applies extra knockback to them), instead of learning the absolutely valid counterplay that you were told existed. Destroy the volatile structures, or send them back at the opponent. You're entirely valid in the idea of shiftstones being the only way to counter volatile, and it certainly does feel that way with certain playstyles, and volatile is definitely one of the strongest playstyles currently (as a volatile player myself, I can admit that), but wanting it altered so drastically because you personally aren't able to effectively fight it is just outright dumb. Practice reacting to the opponent structure spawns, practice slingshotting their structures back at them, practice awareness of your surroundings and what can be launched by volatile. You'll manage to fight it eventually. Good luck out there, Rumbler

YourNeighborNat

To one of these suggestions (Making explode/volatile no longer disarm players using hold/flick.): volatile/explode doesn't directly disarm ungrounded holds or flicked structures in the same way it would a grounded structure with hold on it.
A grounded structure with hold on it that's hit with an explode structure (even the AoE) will break the hold when it changes the state of the structure from grounded to ungrounded.
An ungrounded structure with hold on it that was hit by or in the AoE of, say, an explode disc, would not innately break the hold because the state of the structure is not changing changing from ungrounded to grounded. If a volatile cube impacted a wall with hold on it, AFAIK there's a decent chance it may break the hold not due to a state change, but due to the force of the volatile explosion swiftly knocking it away. 
AFAIK, flick is not broken by explode direct hits or AoE. It is more likely that the explode knockback will cause the structure to rubberband-snap back into the the flick user or cause to break on them otherwise if they are flick flying.

YourNeighborNat

Detective_Pork So, no knockback, but they still unground? That would make a disc as effective as a cube against a grounded wall with hold on it, yeh? No knockback on flicked structures would also weaken some anti-air against flick flying players.